Hi there! Today’s guest is actor, director, choreographer, and dance professor Joy Clark. Joy is the ultimate embodiment of her name, finding joy in her own journey as well as empowering students to find it in theirs. Currently on the dance faculty at FOUR universities in the Boston area, Joy also finds time to direct, choreograph, and perform. Her story is unique to her and I think you’ll enjoy her perspective on defining success, using your body as a guide, and finding joy in the process.
Find Joy!
on IG and tiktok @joydclark
https://www.joy-clark.com/
Theme music written by Rachel Dean and orchestrated by Katie Coleman
Audio engineer Lane Sanders
Special thanks to the following folks from the SIX Boleyn Company for lending their voices to the intro:
Dylan Dineen
Sarah Ortiz
Jane Cardona
Kaitlin Ciccarelli
Mike Rukstad
Kami Lujan
Jillian Bartels
Find us!
on IG @howtosucceedintheater
https://howtosucceedintheater.buzzsprout.com
Patreon
Hi there! Today’s guest is actor, director, choreographer, and dance professor Joy Clark. Joy is the ultimate embodiment of her name, finding joy in her own journey as well as empowering students to find it in theirs. Currently on the dance faculty at FOUR universities in the Boston area, Joy also finds time to direct, choreograph, and perform. Her story is unique to her and I think you’ll enjoy her perspective on defining success, using your body as a guide, and finding joy in the process.
Find Joy!
on IG and tiktok @joydclark
https://www.joy-clark.com/
Theme music written by Rachel Dean and orchestrated by Katie Coleman
Audio engineer Lane Sanders
Special thanks to the following folks from the SIX Boleyn Company for lending their voices to the intro:
Dylan Dineen
Sarah Ortiz
Jane Cardona
Kaitlin Ciccarelli
Mike Rukstad
Kami Lujan
Jillian Bartels
Find us!
on IG @howtosucceedintheater
https://howtosucceedintheater.buzzsprout.com
Patreon
01:34.74
howtosucceed
I'm happy to I'm in like a cozy mood today but I was like whatever it's just a call of joy like it's not a big deal. Ah.
01:40.32
Joy Clark
Ah, it's so real I felt the exact same way I was like oh my god ah interview for a podcast and I was like no I'm just hang out with Katie so in like.
01:48.52
howtosucceed
Ah, like whatever exactly literally? um what? Ok so what is happening in your life this week in terms of work like what's like an average week if it's an average week.
01:59.32
Joy Clark
Oh my gosh. Um, of course. Um so the average week for me. Um this week. Well, it's the first week of classes for um, a couple of the colleges that I teach at um should I explain my.
02:14.23
howtosucceed
Okay, yeah, go for it I'm That's what we're here for. Ah.
02:16.91
Joy Clark
My stitch. Okay, great, amazing. So um, I'm a a union actor and director and choreographer. Um, but my main side gig is being a theater professor. So I am in the Boston area right now. So I teach um. Several institutions I teach at Berkeley College of music I teach at the Boston Conservatory I teach at Emerson College um and I recently added boston college to that list which is really fun. Get to teach all the muggles as I say all the sports humans and.
02:51.25
howtosucceed
Wow. Ah, ah.
02:55.15
Joy Clark
I'm like ok so speaking of sports have you ever heard of theater. Um, so um, it's the hardest sport there is um which is so true and I I absolutely oh in in all the ways like I.
03:00.10
howtosucceed
Ah, it's the hardest 1
03:06.79
howtosucceed
In some ways. Yeah yeah.
03:13.15
Joy Clark
Truly could launch into a lecture right now? Um, but um I um I really started and I I only started teaching that um that course which is introduction to theater which is an open course for folks last semester and. I Have a a bachelor's in in theater Arts. So I studied a little bit of everything of theater. Um with an acting emphasis and then I got my master's in musical Theater. So It's some of the things that I'm teaching in that class I haven't I haven't thought about in a long time.
03:37.42
howtosucceed
Yeah.
03:48.29
howtosucceed
Yeah.
03:50.70
Joy Clark
Things like re familiarizing myself with Greek theater and like all that jazz. Um, so but I've had so much fun doing that and I had so much fun last semester introducing just like all of these people who because I'm so used to teaching.
03:54.37
howtosucceed
Hold out.
04:07.34
Joy Clark
Like I teach bfa seniors at Emerson and I teach you know folks who want to go into theater. Um at Berkeley and at Boko so like I I spent so much time teaching folks who are just as nerdy about this thing as I am.
04:13.74
howtosucceed
Yeah.
04:22.69
Joy Clark
And then to have a room full of people who like have never seen a play have never seen a musical. Um I was like oh I get to get down to basics with you in a way that like can really help shape your appreciation for this art form and I loved it. It was so awesome. It was so fun. Um.
04:33.39
howtosucceed
Wow, That's really cool. So like who signs up for that class. Is it people that think it'll be easy or is it people who genuinely are interested.
04:47.10
Joy Clark
U Girl The the bag is mixed. She is a mixed bag. Um, it's a little bit of everything I've Found. Um,, there's a lot of people who are like I need this arts requirement Because. I play a sport here and I have to make sure that I meet all of my requirements and my my advisor literally signed me up for this class I Did they just showed up when they told me to oh my brain. My brain I was like what someone else can sign you up for a class. Um, this shows how much I know about sports. But.
05:08.89
howtosucceed
Oh wow.
05:17.10
howtosucceed
Yeah.
05:22.39
Joy Clark
So there's that but then there's also a lot of folks who are like you know com majors or english majors and they're like yeah I like Shakespeare or um, my sister does theater and I just wanted to like learn more about it and i. Like by the end of last semester I was so touched like I had students like I know a student write on their final exam like a paragraph on their final where they said they were like um this class was so much fun I've been listening to the hades town soundtrack I've never seen it before.
05:49.83
howtosucceed
Ah.
05:58.66
Joy Clark
What do we think of it should I go see it I Really want to also doing a show a show next semester. What are what the what is the show. How can I come and it just like oh made me so happy because like what I've realized with that class in particular is that my secret.
06:00.56
howtosucceed
Oh wow.
06:06.51
howtosucceed
Oh my God That's so cool.
06:16.67
Joy Clark
Don't tell them but my secret in what is to create a new generation of theater goers and theaterwars like go get your techck jog I love that go get your tech tech degree. You're gonna go make millions of dollars
06:22.30
howtosucceed
Yeah, exactly.
06:32.33
Joy Clark
And then go give it to a theater like I want you to go produce I Want you to go do all these things. Um, oh it was so cool. This is what I'm saying genuinely So I'm having a great time and I and I have spent my winter break like who has a break. No artist.
06:32.92
howtosucceed
Nice that is so important I feel like that should be a required class like how to support the arts. Yeah.
06:50.41
howtosucceed
Right.
06:51.78
Joy Clark
Or Educator has a break um break who um I spent my break like recalibrating my curriculum and like um, just like delving into that. So yeah, it's I'm really lucky to have a side gig. I Joke with my emerson students my my B a fa seniors where I'm like I Love you all and you are my side gig like I Love you so much and you're my side gig and like.
07:12.50
howtosucceed
Yeah, that's I want to dig into that because that's fascinating to me because I feel like what you are doing is some people's dream job like to glance at the University level I mean that is super cool and that to me is success in theater.
07:20.80
Joy Clark
Yes, it really is this.
07:32.38
howtosucceed
But you're still thinking of it as not what you ultimately want to be doing.
07:32.42
Joy Clark
Um, right right? It's fascinating and and believe me anyone listening who's like screw you joy I want that job so bad like.
07:44.34
howtosucceed
I like I want that job I will kill you for it. Ah.
07:46.33
Joy Clark
I Feel the I feel the guilt daily I Really do feel the guilt daily. Um I I think one of the biggest things is that like collegiate teaching has ah has been on my like on my list of goals since I went ah and did grad school. Um, not.
08:02.85
howtosucceed
Yeah.
08:05.88
Joy Clark
Most theater humans people in the theater industry. Don't necessarily go on to grad school because they don't It's not necessarily necessary for their. Um yeah for their career. But um I you know got my general theater degree I stayed very close to home and then I went.
08:12.16
howtosucceed
Right.
08:25.50
Joy Clark
And I I couldn't believe that I got into the Boston Conservatory for grad school I was um I'm just a little nobody from middle and nowhere California I was like what really like. Okay yeah i.
08:32.50
howtosucceed
Um, and what was ah why did you apply to grad school to begin with.
08:44.29
Joy Clark
I Loved my my theater degree from undergrad I adored it so much I had an acting emphasis and honestly like if I had it to do again I probably would do the same thing. Um, it ended up being the right journey for me and who I was at that time. Um.
08:57.40
howtosucceed
That's great.
09:02.18
Joy Clark
But at the end of my undergrad I was with all the love to my undergrad. They had a similar problem that a lot of institutions have where various departments and the arts don't necessarily play well together. Um, and now that I'm working collegiately now and I'm seeing it from the inside it baffles me.
09:14.10
howtosucceed
Yeah.
09:21.55
Joy Clark
Still where I'm just like why are we not? We're all working towards the same goals like why? Why is it so hard. Um for and it and yes exactly and it becomes like competitive instead of collaborative and it just like it's It's such a shame and I I don't think it's.
09:24.52
howtosucceed
Yeah, and like we need the same spaces and the same equipment and that like yeah yeah.
09:37.23
howtosucceed
Yeah, yeah, do do we blame for this. But.
09:40.10
Joy Clark
Any 1 person's fault obviously like I I'm the last person to solve the political and yeah and and um and organizational issues of institutions. But um, you know the ones who lose are the students and um and i.
09:53.50
howtosucceed
Yeah.
09:56.87
Joy Clark
And I remember feeling that as ah as a student and and I continue to hear that as an educator now and I work really hard in my classrooms to like try to solve things for my students where I'm like oh you're having trouble reserving space because so-and-so so says you're not like allowed to like let me get in there like Cc um see me see me on that email. That's so stupid.
10:06.40
howtosucceed
Right.
10:12.38
howtosucceed
Um, yeah, oh my gosh.
10:16.73
Joy Clark
Um, but ah, looping back I I loved my my undergrad but I was really passionate about musical theater I always have been and my undergrad was very much and. And acting first degree which was great. They did 1 musical during the time that I was there and then they were like no, we're not going to do that anymore because we don't want to collaborate with the music department and I was like for real. Um, so I finished and I was I went to the university of the pacific in um Stockton California yeah
10:40.41
howtosucceed
Wait Where did you go to undergrad. Did we go to the same place. Okay, that's where I went but at very different times very different departments. Yeah.
10:50.85
Joy Clark
Um, ah I know Katie and I go way back? Yes, very different times very different departments but it's fascinating like and now that program has changed a lot and I I loved my time there I really did um but that program has changed a lot. They've shifted to focus more on film so that they're not.
11:02.74
howtosucceed
Right.
11:09.89
Joy Clark
Necessarily clashing as much in those ways but I basically by the end of my time I was like I don't feel like I'm done like I don't feel like I'm done learning about this about this thing and I feel like through not necessarily. Anyone's fault I was kind of cheated out of the.
11:19.66
howtosucceed
Yeah.
11:29.54
Joy Clark
Learning that I really wanted which is about you know this particular part of the industry that I'm really passionate about so I um I applied to you know I went to gosh what are they called Burdas I remember where you go and you audition for like a zillion.
11:32.86
howtosucceed
Right.
11:41.29
howtosucceed
Oh. Yeah.
11:47.19
Joy Clark
Grad schools and um and then I I picked myself up and brought myself to Boston first time and um, since like my eighth grade field trip. You know what I mean and I auditioned in person and I was like this is never going to happen lulls and then um i.
11:57.92
howtosucceed
Um, yeah, um.
12:05.99
Joy Clark
Only got into the boston conservatory for their master's degree in musical theater and it was like serendipity and I couldn't believe it and my life has completely changed. Um, but I really do like both both of these sides of myself like myself as an actor first.
12:09.60
howtosucceed
Amazing.
12:17.45
howtosucceed
Ah.
12:25.20
Joy Clark
And then my passion for musical theater like live alongside each other in a really beautiful way. Um, so I can't really imagine like having the training having a different kind of training than I have um, but in terms of like once I went to grad school then suddenly I was in the position of like looking at myself as. As a leader in theatrical spaces. Not just someone who's learning how to execute the thing but someone who's learning how to um, teach the thing to folks who also want to do the thing um and leading rooms. Yeah, go.
12:53.95
howtosucceed
So wait is that so you got a masters in musical theater so not in musical theater education. But however, is it just because the only people that get masters in musical theater are people who want to teach is that why.
13:05.45
Joy Clark
Do now.
13:13.88
howtosucceed
You saw yourself in that way. Got it.
13:15.60
Joy Clark
That is used that is the case. Um, basically a bfa um is built to give you all the tools that you need in order to execute being a professional performer in musical theater. Um, so they say again as someone who is who is currently an educator.
13:25.29
howtosucceed
Okay, sure maybe not all of the skills. But yeah.
13:33.55
Joy Clark
Teaching right? As someone who's currently an educator teaching. Um you know bfa seniors in their last year of classes I'm like yep, okay here we are and this four years is theoretically what you need. Um.
13:35.89
howtosucceed
Yeah, yeah.
13:41.47
howtosucceed
Yeah.
13:47.55
Joy Clark
So the only folks going back to school for musical theater are yeah folks who want to teach collegiately folks who want to study theater who want to write about theater. Um, and and by the time you get to a doctorate in theater then you are writing books about theater.
13:55.48
howtosucceed
I see.
14:03.84
howtosucceed
Okay.
14:05.20
Joy Clark
Um, you are writing you know histories you're chronicling you are you know writing writing um studies which is fascinating because it brings to mind for me. The fact that like you know we have doctors of theater and we have masters of theater and then we have like theater critics who are out in the world who. Haven't studied theater ever. You know who just you know like like our industry is a fascinating one in that there are so many different avenues to it that there's There's a lack of structure and a lack of rules that's incredibly accessible and like we love that about her and.
14:25.68
howtosucceed
Um, yeah.
14:31.56
howtosucceed
Right.
14:38.88
howtosucceed
Right.
14:41.86
Joy Clark
It's very easy for you know there's There's a reason that people like feel different types of ways about even people who are teaching them in school because there's a lot of you know in in theater as we know experience is worth its weight in education like experience is where you where you learn.
14:58.60
howtosucceed
Yeah, that's where you learn? yeah.
15:01.27
Joy Clark
So that's where you learn so you'll have um, you know folks who are incredibly good at what they do, um ah with a bachelor's degree. You know who are teaching collegiate and that's awesome again. That's incredibly accessible and that experience is is worth its weight and.
15:10.57
howtosucceed
Right.
15:20.26
Joy Clark
It's fascinating to to see how that can impact that that varying level of experience versus at quote unquote education. You know, formalized education manifests in spaces and and in that way suddenly I'm like oh well, no wonder No No wonder people have trouble getting along because there's probably a lot of. Variation that happens. Um in those spaces. But yeah, go ahead. That's a great question. Yes,, there's lots and lots of grad school for Acting. Um, in fact, in fact, that's some of the most common. Um.
15:39.73
howtosucceed
Right? So could someone get like a masters in acting. Okay.
15:58.42
Joy Clark
Ah, other than folks who are going to um, grad school to teach um folks who go to grad school for acting um are a lot of the folks that you see you know on film in in big roles and and leading playcasts.
16:07.71
howtosucceed
I see I Just think it's interesting that I think it's so interesting that you can't like that a master's in musical theater means teaching and not getting better at the craft. But I guess there's other ways there's other classes you can take.
16:18.69
Joy Clark
Yeah, well I think yes well and and I think continued education as we know as an artist is just so important like you're you're basically every artist out there who is pursuing and it's succeeding.
16:26.97
howtosucceed
2
16:31.27
howtosucceed
Yeah.
16:38.16
Joy Clark
And failing at a life in musical theater is doing their own Master's program every day you know they're taking dance class. They're going to voice lessons they're paying out of pocket like they're getting that education whether it's through an institution or not um I was going to say something I was I going to say I was gonna say um.
16:40.52
howtosucceed
Right.
16:50.70
howtosucceed
Right? Interesting. Ah.
16:56.60
Joy Clark
My God Oh oh this is something that I talk about with my with my students a lot like musical theater remember has a much shorter history than acting at large like musical theater is an American art form musical theater started.
17:05.53
howtosucceed
Right? That's true.
17:11.21
Joy Clark
Formally with Oklahoma in 44 you know like we're not even no like and and we can push it back to the to the 20 s if we're talking like vaudeville and and stuff but you know we're not, we're barely one hundred years old as an art form musical theater. So.
17:13.92
howtosucceed
Ah, yeah, not how long ago.
17:21.80
howtosucceed
Right. Yeah.
17:28.37
Joy Clark
As opposed to you know, check off and Ibsen and all of this stuff that goes way way way back and clear back to you know Aristotle. Um in western theater. Um, that's not even talking about eastern theater which goes even further back. So it makes sense that musical theater is still kind of figuring out.
17:34.81
howtosucceed
Interesting.
17:45.86
Joy Clark
What it looks like as an organized art form. You know I don't think I ever answered your question about like that being my side job but ah.
17:47.42
howtosucceed
Um, right? Yeah, definitely. Um, ok so what is.
17:59.25
howtosucceed
No, okay, that's good. Okay I'm I'm I'm taking notes so I won't I'll keep us on track. Ah so you teach at 3 universities. How to I feel. Okay, how is that possible and what.
18:03.30
Joy Clark
Um, oh you're a hero. You're a hero Yes, technically for that is such a good question. Can you say that last part.
18:16.42
howtosucceed
I mean for your schedule and your life.
18:18.87
Joy Clark
You broke up. Ah yeah, so um, it is the ultimate balance I think of it like um, you know a lot of actors have multiple side Jobs. You know you like work catering and then you work a desk shift at Equinox and then you also you know babysit and but but bla like this is essentially the same being an adjunct faculty member is basically the same deal. Um and hundreds of professors all over the.
18:51.73
howtosucceed
Chart.
18:53.89
Joy Clark
Country and the world. Um, do this all the time and and at its heart again with love to the institutions who have a very tough time. Um allocating resources colleges have discovered that it is cheaper to hire adjunct faculty to teach 1 class or 2 classes.
19:03.73
howtosucceed
Yeah.
19:12.12
Joy Clark
Um, rather than have um more full time positions. It's much cheaper. They save on Health care. Um, and it is so there's I am not alone in being a a professor who just bops around to all of these colleges. Um, and.
19:27.78
howtosucceed
Yeah.
19:31.70
Joy Clark
It's taken me. It's taken some workshopping Katie to be able to find the balance of how many classes can I teach at a time. Um, and I boy Howdy have I pushed that limit I have pushed past the bounds of I've gotten a finger Wag saying.
19:33.89
howtosucceed
I bet.
19:39.69
howtosucceed
Right? yeah.
19:49.46
Joy Clark
You are working more than a full-time load and you're a part-time educator stop that and I've been like I didn't I don't I'm sorry I didn't know I'm like yeah like and and because it is set up that way right? The the classes I'm so lucky please don't get me wrong i' am so incredibly lucky to teach the classes that I teach.
19:55.68
howtosucceed
Um, like at one University yeah.
20:09.46
Joy Clark
And I adore all of my students and it's an important aspect of this that it's just much like education all over where we're stretching the limits of educators. Um.
20:25.10
howtosucceed
Time. Yeah.
20:26.81
Joy Clark
Or stretching the limits of educators yeah time and energy. Um in order to get the bottom dollar you know, just lowered a little bit. Um, so um, so this semester and I'm and I'm really happy with this balance this semester I am teaching four classes.
20:32.73
howtosucceed
Right? So how many classes do you teach like per as per web.
20:46.61
Joy Clark
Um, and they're all twice a week. Um, and so the the hours rack up of course. Um, but yeah I probably at my at my max when I was like technically breaking the rules I was teaching 6 classes at once twice a week each and I would be doing like 3 or 4
20:48.48
howtosucceed
At.
21:06.80
Joy Clark
Dance classes back to back to back to back to back and my body was like that's insane and I was like that's fair body. Thank you So sorry. Thanks for the notes. Um well but it's in its um I think it's interesting to look at in comparison to things like directing or choreographing and.
21:12.48
howtosucceed
Ah, yeah, that's a lot.
21:25.85
Joy Clark
And um, where you're working on and and mind you like as a director choreographer and an actor like most of the time when I'm teaching all these classes I'm I'm doubling up and doing rehearsals in the evening and everything. So um, it's It's a wonderful.
21:36.70
howtosucceed
Yeah.
21:41.33
Joy Clark
Side Gig and that I'm doing theater all day every day and I am I am so lucky yes and and as I've I've I've said this before that like if a spell goes by where I'm only performing and not teaching um or only being creative and not teaching.
21:43.33
howtosucceed
Yeah, you're practicing theater.
21:59.68
Joy Clark
A little part of me in the back of my brain is like rattling and being like like we we are not being stimulated and vice versa if I'm only teaching and I'm not practicing the thing. Um, then I get itchy. You know so it's um I'm so lucky.
22:03.93
howtosucceed
Yeah.
22:12.89
howtosucceed
So maybe it's not entirely a side gig joy.
22:19.33
Joy Clark
I think you're right Katie Coleman and that's the thing like um, you had asked like is this where you saw yourself. Um, you know in your career you know at this point and the answer is no I didn't think I would be a professor until you know I was 40 or 50 Um and like i.
22:26.20
howtosucceed
Yeah.
22:36.29
howtosucceed
Oh like after I no that makes sense. Yeah.
22:38.13
Joy Clark
Felt like I had more to give like that sounds so so funny, but like and and then I found myself you know in my late 20 s being a professor and looking across the room at students who look like not far off. From what I look like and they're looking at me like why are you sitting here and teaching me and I'm like that's a very fair question right? Oh like that's a very fair point but I'm ah I'm ah, show you what for? So um, has become this.
22:58.60
howtosucceed
They're like maybe in high school but in college. Ah yeah.
23:10.18
Joy Clark
Very special like hand in hand relationship. Um I just got representation for the first time. Um because it was the right time in my um career I know it's so exciting. Thank you and um i.
23:19.60
howtosucceed
Um, Wow congratulations.
23:26.24
Joy Clark
You know as we were discussing like what I was looking for in terms of representation and work. You know I found myself being like yes so I'm based in Boston during the school year like I'm based in Boston and I will I will do all love to do all the local theater and I have been very lucky to do all of the local theater as a regional you know theater actor in a very vibrant.
23:44.22
howtosucceed
Yeah.
23:45.97
Joy Clark
Theater you know theater community here in Boston um, and then during the summer I'll go wherever and and whenever um so and I and I think it's the setup that I never knew was right for me and now that. It's kind of found me it really did like collegiate teaching found me deep in the pandemic and was like hey come on out here teach one class and I went. Okay, um I just feel. Yeah I just feel really lucky that the universe was like I think this is what you need joy.
24:10.33
howtosucceed
Yeah.
24:17.90
howtosucceed
Yeah I mean that's way better than catering or working at equinox I mean no offense to those side gates. But.
24:20.80
Joy Clark
Look I'm so lucky. No not at all. But I also acknowledge like you know I have a friend who's a who's a um, she's a she's a coach. She coaches like high school students who are going um in wanting to go to school for school theater I know you have to get s somewhere on here.
24:34.90
howtosucceed
I know I'm trying to get her on this podcast. She has not responded to me I have tried you should tell her okay tell her how easy it is Yes, ah.
24:40.21
Joy Clark
Oh she's so busy I'll go bother her everybody who's listening just go and spam Sarah no no, no, don't do that? Um, but um, no, she's she's absolutely fantastic. But she talks about like she's come like guested in my class before and I and we left and she was like joy.
24:55.35
howtosucceed
Um, yeah.
24:59.46
Joy Clark
You What you do is my worst nightmare she was like I I would never want to do what you do so like it's it's fascinating. You know there's a different. There's a home for everybody in. Um, you know the the land of side gigs. But.
25:01.97
howtosucceed
Oh yeah, well that's a good point.
25:12.77
howtosucceed
Yeah, because your job requires a lot of energy and a lot of ah wrangling people and some of us don't want to do that.
25:20.40
Joy Clark
This is true. Yeah, it's and and also just like mental and emotional management. You know like when you're in college whether you're again there for football or whether you are there to go be on broadway.
25:27.16
howtosucceed
Yeah.
25:38.71
Joy Clark
There is so much going on in that time in your life and you are learning so much about who you are. You're away from home for the first time a lot of folks and it's honestly an honor to help folks navigate those things. Um and to be a part of their journey and as I always say theater is the.
25:39.62
howtosucceed
Yeah.
25:51.36
howtosucceed
Um, yeah.
25:58.31
Joy Clark
Theater is there for you. Yeah, like theater theater is the perfect thing to help anyone at any time in their life. Be able to take stock you get to try on someone else's shoes or you get to you know, see a story that you would have never seen and and it.
25:58.72
howtosucceed
Yeah.
26:16.20
Joy Clark
It gives you perspective on the world. So I love I Love being able to help actualize that.
26:18.95
howtosucceed
Yeah, um, okay so what would you say is your ultimate goal and this is a 2 wo-part question um do you feel.
26:30.36
Joy Clark
Of course.
26:34.24
howtosucceed
Like you have found success in theater and what would make you fully feel like you have like made it.
26:43.30
Joy Clark
Oh it's such a good question. Um, and it's such a loaded question right? because and I talk about this with my with my students too I Love you. Thank you for it. Let's dig into it. Let's go. Um.
26:46.87
howtosucceed
Yeah, this I'm this is I am challenging you on purpose to be like what what does it actually look like joy. But yes.
26:59.13
Joy Clark
Well I talk I do I talk about this with my students a lot too because you know if we're talking about my bfa seniors. They're at the end of a 4 year run you know they have been cooking for a long time and they have been talking about this thing. Um for such a long time.
27:07.40
howtosucceed
Yeah.
27:15.83
howtosucceed
Yeah.
27:17.48
Joy Clark
And sometimes you get to you know the end of your 4 years and you're like okay hold on like what do I want like is this which part of this do I want to pursue like what what do I actually want out of this industry. What is going to make me happy. Not just what have I been taught.
27:23.61
howtosucceed
Yeah.
27:35.47
howtosucceed
Exactly yes.
27:36.58
Joy Clark
Mean Success right? and I like the capital Beway of course like hangs in the back of well maybe not of course but well, but perhaps not like I add to your point you know like.
27:47.43
howtosucceed
Everyone.
27:55.92
Joy Clark
I Think when you have a strong sense of self and you and you know like this is what works for me and this is what doesn't but I don't know if there is an actor out there who like has always I would say has always had a strong sense of self you know like.
28:10.47
howtosucceed
Right.
28:13.47
Joy Clark
Um, I know I haven't always had a strong sense of self and so I've had to be very honest with myself as time has gone on about what feels right to me and the Capital B B way is still back there and I think that that to this day.
28:32.23
Joy Clark
God Love my therapist and we will. We will continue to unpack it but to this day that will always have some some level of of clout in terms of you have succeeded. Um, if you have achieved X um.
28:35.88
howtosucceed
Um, yeah.
28:45.27
howtosucceed
Yeah, and is that what? um your your agent so you have an agent now is that what it is or a manager. Okay, and that's like that idea behind that. Maybe.
28:49.22
Joy Clark
But ah yes I do an agent I think the idea behind that Yes, very much is for me to be able to get into rooms that I have not had access to up until this point.
29:04.81
howtosucceed
Um, yeah.
29:08.95
Joy Clark
Um, which includes rooms like that. Um, when I chatted with my agent about like goals I Definitely um, put tours and um ah Off-broadway. At the top of the list in terms of those feel like in this point in my life things that would make me feel like oh yeah, I've I've done the thing in the way that I want to do it. Um.
29:27.30
howtosucceed
Yeah.
29:34.10
howtosucceed
Yes.
29:36.96
Joy Clark
I think Broadway the the flashing lights in the back of my head are getting dimmer and dimmer and not in a not in a bad way in a in an honest way in a like no I don't think that's what I want and that's not necessarily a bad thing like that's me learning about myself and being honest with myself about the.
29:43.49
howtosucceed
Yeah.
29:56.75
Joy Clark
The way of life that I want and let me be also very clear I'm thirty one years old and I and I feel like I move through the world as though I'm like 60 and I'm like oh my god I've seen things and I'm jaded and I knew like but there is so much that you learn about yourself. Through the course of your twenty s and by the time you're in your thirty s I feel like enough things have happened to you enough enough. Um life experience and enough. Um maybe hardship personal life things that you can't help but be more honest with yourself.
30:32.21
howtosucceed
Yeah.
30:33.78
Joy Clark
And your body's going to tell you when it doesn't feel right when it's not right? And yeah, it is and boy howdy if there's 1 thing that we as artists are good at doing it is saying.
30:37.94
howtosucceed
Oh I Want to put that in such big quotation marks your body is going to tell you? yes.
30:52.79
Joy Clark
Thank you body I'm going to ignore that and push through it because I've been told that that's what makes me serious I've been told that's what makes me legitimate. Um, and again as I always talk about with my students like there's a very big difference between uncomforability and lack of safety.
31:08.95
howtosucceed
Um, yes, yeah, it's a good thing. Yeah.
31:11.00
Joy Clark
Uncomfortabletability is where we want to live as artists you know, like we want to live there. Yeah,, that's where we grow. That's where we like are pushing boundaries that slaps we lovecomfortability lack of safety is different right? And if your body is telling you like no this isn't. It man. This really is not. We can't This isn't Sustainable. We can't do this. That's not a weakness that's ah, that's a that's a skill to be able to listen to your body and listen to your heart and your mind and be like oh this is actively bad for me.
31:34.47
howtosucceed
Yeah.
31:40.20
howtosucceed
Right.
31:46.69
howtosucceed
Right? yeah.
31:48.54
Joy Clark
Why would I keep doing whatever it is yeah, whatever it may be whether it's you know, living in that apartment that you swear you can't find the same rate somewhere else or like whether it's you know I don't know. Yeah, so well I'm.
31:57.15
howtosucceed
Her Yeah, the rest of your life Exactly those are really really great points I Love that.
32:08.31
Joy Clark
And I but you know as as I have found like as a collegiate teacher like preaching is very different than practicing what you preach and I and I'm very honest with my students I will come in and be like I'm giving you this advice and I am acknowledging I'm terrible at taking it sometimes.
32:24.78
howtosucceed
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true, right.
32:26.28
Joy Clark
And I have to like keep myself in check and say like like take stock. Um, and I So I I do feel like in this moment in my life. There is a really good. Um I'm getting better at the balance I. I'm finding more um I'm finding more beauty and being able to be in conversation with myself and being able to answer questions in a way that I might not want to answer them be like no I don't think that's for me or no I think I Really love this part of this that I keep.
32:57.99
howtosucceed
All right? You know.
33:05.48
Joy Clark
Insisting is like something that's in my way you know and it's is hard. Dude is hard and it's a lifelong journey if my therapist has taught me anything. Yeah, absolutely so cheers to the balance The balance I know.
33:06.36
howtosucceed
Yeah.
33:14.13
howtosucceed
It's uncomfortable. But that's where we grow. Um, okay so I know oh my gosh The the balance If if there is such a thing. Ah um, sweep This is already been amazing.
33:24.47
Joy Clark
Quote Unquote quote unquote.
33:31.50
howtosucceed
Okay, so last question um that again this is I need to get better at the the single part question but I'm looking for advice for people on how to succeed in theater but you have a unique perspective in seeing students who have gone on to perhaps succeed and perhaps.
33:33.64
Joy Clark
I'm ready.
33:42.39
Joy Clark
And.
33:50.49
howtosucceed
Fail. So what would you say are maybe some things to avoid that you've seen have led to failure and I mean failure is like not actual failure. None of us are actually failing versus like the students. Maybe who have really succeeded and what can people.
33:59.58
Joy Clark
Um, no, no, no no.
34:06.18
Joy Clark
Um, yeah I think the best way to succeed. Well I think to think that it the thing that is going to lead you to fail is.
34:08.98
howtosucceed
Yeah.
34:22.88
Joy Clark
Having someone else's goals like you can't have someone else's goals. You can't reach for things that you don't intrinsically want and your your person is going to shut that down.
34:23.46
howtosucceed
Yes.
34:33.20
howtosucceed
Yes.
34:38.92
howtosucceed
Yeah, you're just not going to get there. Yeah.
34:40.54
Joy Clark
If if it is you know if it isn't Authentic. So No and and and that's where like I think people get twisted. They think oh I failed at doing I failed at succeeding at this thing and I'm like no no, no, no that one way of doing that. Was not the way for you that was not intrinsic to you. You know whether that's like insisting that like booking a cruise is what is going to like be to be all end all for you but you get seasick and you you know that.
35:09.90
howtosucceed
Ah, right? The ultimate wow.
35:17.83
Joy Clark
Traveling exhaust you or whatever like then if all you're doing is trying to book a cruise and then you hate doing it like then of course you're going to stop pursuing the thing you know what I mean like of of course you're going to.
35:27.19
howtosucceed
Yeah.
35:35.60
Joy Clark
That's that's the biggest thing that I see is people who stop working in the industry and that doesn't right exactly because they haven't allowed themselves to try all of the different avenues like I didn't.
35:35.98
howtosucceed
Yeah, because they don't know how to do it in their way.
35:48.60
howtosucceed
Yeah.
35:50.86
Joy Clark
Think like when I was going to school for theater I didn't think that I was going to find a home as a professor but if I had gotten stuck in my brain that I I just wanted to do X or Y I never would have found this. You know.
35:54.96
howtosucceed
I.
36:06.57
Joy Clark
Being a yes person in the industry is not about saying yes for this for the sake of um whoever is giving you the job right? saying yes is about right saying yes is about expanding your scope.
36:16.17
howtosucceed
Right? say? Yes, everything? yeah. You know.
36:24.41
Joy Clark
Saying yes is about trying something on and saying oh that felt awesome or Wow that felt like garbage I'm not going to do that again right? and that is a skill to be able to be in conversation with yourself and I think it's one that we don't often allow.
36:29.94
howtosucceed
Right? right.
36:42.56
Joy Clark
Students are people who are starting out in the industry or even people people who've been in the industry for a long time. You know that the rhetoric is about keep pushing keep pushing and that's not to say that Persistence isn't a huge part of our industry but you have to be persistent at the things that are actually going to be worth your time and your energy and I think if everyone were more honest with themselves.
36:56.34
howtosucceed
Right.
37:02.15
Joy Clark
And again I'm I'm talking to myself I'm talking to myself just as much as I'm talking to anyone else. But if we were more honest with ourselves. We would have an industry full of people who are thoroughly fulfilled because they would be pursuing the things that they love instead of the things that they're told that they are supposed to love right? yeah.
37:15.31
howtosucceed
That actually bring them fulfillment right? Yes, yeah, great. No, that's this is honestly you're summing up so much of like the point of this podcast.
37:20.85
Joy Clark
Um, yeah, it's a very Utopian way of looking at it. But ah.
37:31.45
Joy Clark
Um, oh good right? no.
37:31.61
howtosucceed
Like we tend to only think that there's 1 goal in theater and that's and that's very much not in alignment with who we are nor is that like once you're on Broadway you're probably not on Broadway forever. So that can't be the only merge of success. Yeah.
37:44.78
Joy Clark
Right? No not at all like if if you don't say yes when when you're in that Shakespeare play. Um and they say can you choreograph this court dance really fast I saw you do musical theater. Then you're never going to find out that you absolutely love choreographing right? You know it's it's so much about just allowing it to find you and then going full throttle into whatever that is.
38:00.45
howtosucceed
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
38:07.46
howtosucceed
Okay, yeah, okay, 1 other really quick question. So if someone actually wants to teach dance at a collegiate level as their ultimate goal.
38:22.93
Joy Clark
Um, yep, that's a great question I Think the first thing that they can do is um, reach out to.
38:25.78
howtosucceed
What's like 1 little way that they can start to go down that path.
38:36.39
Joy Clark
Professors of theirs or former professors of theirs see if they need an assistant see if um, there's a way that they could um, shadow them get some experience. Um, maybe ask if they can see their curriculum plans or how do you build a syllabus and and start messing around. Um I I don't think I realized when I was going into a collegiate teaching how much freedom there actually is like like you are the 1 building your syllabus like yes, they'll be You'll be given like requirements and things and you have to have this in there but like just play around.
39:06.17
howtosucceed
Yeah.
39:13.97
howtosucceed
Um, yeah, right.
39:15.42
Joy Clark
In your Google drive and like make a powerpoint like you know, just start start creating because as an educator you are a creator you are creating an experience for other people. So that's one of the first things that I would say is like yeah.
39:29.52
howtosucceed
That's really great. Yeah, that's great to know that you're empowered truly as the professor to yeah yeah, ah.
39:34.74
Joy Clark
You actually really are um which is really really special and really wonderful. Um, like my classes that I teach are thoroughly me like they are they are They are me through and through you know, um, and then the other thing that I would say is you know start to get.
39:47.42
howtosucceed
That's great.
39:54.36
Joy Clark
Into some of the the um the resources that are available. There's there's websites like higher Ed jobs where you can just start to keep ah keep tabs. It's just like checking playbill or the Union website you know for auditions it's just like go once a week in see who's hiring see what? um.
40:11.31
howtosucceed
What.
40:14.15
Joy Clark
Positions they're looking for. Um and I would also say just start racking up as much teaching experience as you can and no teaching experience. Especially if you're wanting to teach theater. No teaching experience is going to be a waste I taught.
40:30.10
Joy Clark
Kindergartners and pre-kindergartners um to make plays you know I have taught in the New York city public school system I um taught independently I taught on on Zoom during the pandemic and.
40:41.23
howtosucceed
Yeah.
40:44.16
Joy Clark
Really workshopping how you teach and how you approach material. Um, again, that agency all of these things that you have control over. It's the same thing that we talk about as a performer where it's like control what you can control so start training. Yeah start training to be a teacher and when you go to class.
40:50.40
howtosucceed
Write it.
40:59.40
howtosucceed
Um, yeah.
41:03.47
howtosucceed
Oh yeah.
41:03.67
Joy Clark
Notice pay attention. Don't just be there as someone taking class be there as you know a case to do a case study and be like Wow this thing that they did was really effective. What was that? Um, that part of their warmup I really enjoyed they did this thing when I saw that this particular student was having trouble. They.
41:09.63
howtosucceed
Great learn. Yeah.
41:23.26
Joy Clark
They empowered them in this way like learn from everyone around you because there's no one way to be an educator. Um, there's just um, your way and the most effective way. Um, so start figuring out what that is.
41:32.87
howtosucceed
Yeah I think it's also probably okay, it's probably ah okay, also to copy your favorite teachers and the exact same worm up that they did because it worked for you and that is okay, yeah.
41:39.30
Joy Clark
Yes.
41:46.18
Joy Clark
There is nothing new under the sun and like when I was first starting out like um, my yes, my warmups were entirely made up of my former teacher's warmups and then I started to like.
41:56.92
howtosucceed
Ah.
41:58.29
Joy Clark
Mess with the songs and then I started to mess with you know which body parts were being targeted and so um, it's it's a long game. Don't I am I've been teaching collegiately for 3 years and
42:02.67
howtosucceed
Yeah, yeah.
42:12.14
Joy Clark
I am still as I just said like I spent my whole break like reworking my curriculum like I'm still coming back to revisit and say is this working. How is this going and it's a fabulous it's It's the same kind of.
42:13.40
howtosucceed
That.
42:25.18
Joy Clark
Scavenger hunt that you do you know when you're doing a Sondheim song and you're like going through and making sure that you're finding all of the little actor candy in there. It's all the same. It's the same skills. Um, so yeah, have fun. Um I Love you so much.
42:33.66
howtosucceed
Ah, that's true. That's true. Yeah yeah, that's great. Amazing. Thank you! This has been awesome. You are an inspiration I know I Love you too.
42:45.32
Joy Clark
And um I'm so happy that we got to chat about the many different things that I'm really lucky to do in the theattle.
44:00.66
Joy Clark
Oh absolutely 100% oh do you need like handles or anything for me like do you need any like I don't know like outro. Oh yes, um I um can be found on Instagram at and.
44:06.68
howtosucceed
Yes, thank you Where do people find you, you're like your job baby. Um.
44:16.68
Joy Clark
No, what? um I can be found on Instagram at Joy D Clark um Clark with no e um I am also on Tiktok as joy de clark um, and yeah, that's pretty much it you can check on my website at joydashclar.com
44:29.91
howtosucceed
Amazing.
44:36.10
Joy Clark
Um, every artist always can use traffic to their various places. So um, just go Google search any name and click on and it'll probably be an actor and they'll be so happy that you went there. Um, yeah.
44:40.34
howtosucceed
Yeah, definitely yes, perfect. Yeah, exactly just roaming around Boston somewhere.
44:52.18
Joy Clark
Catch me at all the various colleges near you just roaming around Boston I do have a performance contract this spring I'll be playing Janet in the drowsy chaperone at Lyric stage so come on down. Thanks I can't wait to just be a ham.
45:00.22
howtosucceed
Ah, dancing.
45:04.85
howtosucceed
Oh my gosh, You're perfect for that remove kind. Um, yeah, love it.
45:11.70
Joy Clark
And be a dork I Just love I Love to draw the chaperone speak I mean I'm a big old nerd obviously because I just talk about theater all day and then you get to go do jawsy chaperone which is just like a show for theater nerds to make fun of theater and I'm like yay.
45:22.49
howtosucceed
The Ultimate Yes, Ah, yeah, that's the talk about authenticity. Yes for I Love you too. Thank you so much have a great week and.
45:58.24
Joy Clark
I Love you bye.
46:02.60
howtosucceed
Oh That's great. All right have fun I'll talk to you soon I Love you too bye.