How to Negotiate Contracts and Ask for the Job You Want with Rachel Dart

Today’s episode features a great friend of mine, Rachel Dart - a New York director who most recently worked on the Broadway play Summer 1976. Today we discuss Rachel’s path from playwright to director, creating a safe rehearsal room and showing up authentically in it, how to negotiate your contracts, how Rachel’s side gig as a sex ed teacher helped her be a better director, and how to ask for the job you want. Rachel shows us how being authentic and thoughtful is the only way to show up, and being intentional about career decisions will get you to your goal. 


Theme music written by Rachel Dean and orchestrated by Katie Coleman

Audio engineer Mike Rukstad

Special thanks to the following folks from the SIX Boleyn Company for lending their voices to the intro:

Mike Rukstad

Dylan Dineen

Sarah Ortiz

Jane Cardona

Kaitlin Ciccarelli

Kami Lujan

Jillian Bartels

Find us!

on IG @howtosucceedintheater

https://howtosucceedintheater.buzzsprout.com

Transcript

05:59.10
howtosucceed
We'll get started. Um, okay so you and I have worked together twice now on some new works both of which I feel like are great shows deserving of a future and.

06:06.80
Rachel
Yes, so true.

06:16.35
Rachel
Um, yeah, um, me too.

06:18.50
howtosucceed
I want everyone to keep their eyes peeled for coming soon and Vicki and Frank and I will link to those? Um, yeah, but is that so so how big of a I mean I know I don't know much about like your day-to-day world.

06:32.47
Rachel
Here.

06:35.62
howtosucceed
So how big a part of your life is working on New works versus established works.

06:43.95
Rachel
Oh that's a great question I would say 99.9 percent of my life is working on Newark um, and partly that's because as you're um, as 1 emerges as in one's.

06:52.26
howtosucceed
Um, yeah.

06:57.65
howtosucceed
Um, yeah, sure at this age. Yeah.

07:01.10
Rachel
Feel weird calling myself like early career at this point but I've been at it for a minute. Yeah, really, um, but sort of along the way most of the work that you are that's available to you as a director, especially as a director who doesn't run their own theater company.

07:19.16
howtosucceed
Um, yeah.

07:20.55
Rachel
Um, it's mostly Newark The only thing that I've directed that is pre-existing I think was a production of the trojan women in 17 and then that was so much fine I mean that show was dark obviously but like it was such a luxury. Was like the writer is dead and I will do whatever I was ah I'll cut this and pick it up and move it over here and no one can stop me. Um, so having said that I love working with writers. Um, but yeah, so yeah and I would say 99.9.

07:41.42
howtosucceed
Ah, yes, yeah, it's your show at that point. Ah, oh my God Um yeah.

07:56.71
howtosucceed
Um, that's wow so interesting that brings up several questions. But 1 thing that that makes me think about is that I got started doing theater in the bay area in California and what that meant for.

07:58.17
Rachel
Person like I've never directed a Shakespeare play. Um, yeah.

08:12.40
Rachel
No.

08:15.92
howtosucceed
The whole time was no new works. It was music directing like forty second street and then Oklahoma and then you know you're a good man Charlie Brown it's like all of the shows and I did that for many years and I got a lot of experience music directing full productions which I think is.

08:19.70
Rachel
Um, right? Um, totally yeah yeah.

08:35.68
howtosucceed
Unique in the New York world because a lot of people who come to New York early on in their careers. Don't ever get to do that. They'll do a bunch of new work. Although there they will be like a music assistant or a you know, assistant or director and.

08:42.60
Rachel
For sure. Um, right?? um.

08:52.84
howtosucceed
It's fascinating that like most of the new works that are developed happen are developed in New York that there's not a lot of new work development elsewhere. So.

09:00.45
Rachel
Um, yeah, right? Yeah that's really true and I mean a lot of the I think that's especially true with musicals and it's even it's like extra especially true now even with plays because like a lot of the development. Programs for plays don't exist anymore right? like the humana festival those were all world premiere plays. Um the sundance theater lab is gone. The lark is gone well the lark was in New York but so you know what I mean it's like even new work labs that were outside of New York a lot of them are.

09:19.52
howtosucceed
Right? yeah.

09:33.66
howtosucceed
No longer. Yeah, that's sad. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's interesting because I think totally and I think when people think about New York they think about.

09:35.75
Rachel
Have fallen away over the past few years um it is really sad, but but yeah, that's really, that's so true that right when you're doing regional theater. A lot of the time. It's stuff that already exists.

09:53.12
howtosucceed
You know Broadway and the the big shows that are there but don't always know how much development is happening here too. That's cool.

09:57.91
Rachel
Um, yeah yeah I guess thinking about it more I stand by my 99.9 percent statistic but think thinking about it more I guess. There are times I've worked at colleges where I've directed existing plays like I directed a naomi azuka play at and Nyu and 2016 and I used to direct short plays all the time at um.

10:10.30
howtosucceed
Oh. Yeah.

10:20.19
Rachel
Like the atlantic acting school and conservatory and those were sort of like a Tennessee Williams play that like the department had found and wanted this particular group of students do or like an in a marboses play that the sophomores were you know so that kind of thing. Um in school. Yeah, but outside the academic environment.

10:29.33
howtosucceed
Right? Yeah in school. Yeah that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, so I'm curious both if you prefer it that way like if you like working on Newarks which I think that you do but we can talk more about that.

10:39.82
Rachel
Almost on it all.

10:48.43
howtosucceed
And your journey to directing like did you always know that you wanted to be a director.

10:54.51
Rachel
No, not at all I um I actually I identified as a writer for most of my life. Um, and I went to college for playwriting. So I was a dramatic writing major at Tish at anwayu.

11:00.31
howtosucceed
Okay.

11:05.85
howtosucceed
Yeah, oh yes.

11:11.24
Rachel
And um I struggled for a lot of reasons. Um, not which too many reasons to explain but 1 of which was that it was. It's very much like a conservatory style program and so you know once I got to be I guess a junior I wrote a full length play.

11:29.82
howtosucceed
Oh wow.

11:30.50
Rachel
Every semester. Um, and it's just like on the one hand it's such a good exercise and on the other hand it's like such a recipe for burnout. Um, but in any case I got to the end of that 4 years and I felt like.

11:34.57
howtosucceed
Um, yeah, right.

11:50.33
Rachel
Maybe I didn't maybe the part of it that I liked the most was a part where we all got to sit together and problem solve. Um, you know when we read some of these pages and then we all so sort of tried to get a handle on what was not quite right and how to and how they could fix it.

11:56.38
howtosucceed
Yeah.

12:06.72
Rachel
Didn't like having to be the person who went home and fixed. Um, it was really hard. So I sort of took a year after college and I didn't do any theater at all and I taught at a preschool which is which is wild. Um, and.

12:07.71
howtosucceed
Yeah, yeah.

12:25.23
Rachel
I was like I'm gonna have so much time to do theater on the side because if I decide to do that because I only work from whatever it was like eight thirty to 31 and every single day I went home and took a nap because I was exhausted I was an assistant teacher in a classroom of eleven three year olds and I love them all so much. But every day I was like I have to.

12:31.78
howtosucceed
Oh gosh. Yeah, that sounds exhausting Oh My god. Yeah, part time Jobs always take up full time hours like no matter how it just works out that Way. No you yeah and you can't phone it in either. You can't be like I'm just.

12:45.11
Rachel
You know? Um, yeah, it was a lot. Yes, it's so true and also that's absolutely and that is not a job that you can not take home with you. Um, you'll can phone on in.

13:02.47
howtosucceed
And be a little lazy today.

13:04.31
Rachel
Yeah, you feel like 1 screaming toddler under one arm and another one under the other. Um, but anyway so at the end of that year I thought well maybe maybe that's a job that thing of we all sit around together and try to figure it out like I wonder what that is.

13:06.42
howtosucceed
Oh my gosh.

13:18.77
howtosucceed
Um, yeah, yeah.

13:22.97
Rachel
Um, and then I started sort of poking around. Um but for internships or whatever and I came across prospect theater company. Um, which is a fantastic company that basically exclusively I think exclusively.

13:28.35
howtosucceed
Core. I know.

13:42.40
Rachel
Does new musicals. Um, and I met with the artistic director Carl Reicel and I just could not believe how passionate she was and at the time it was. It's grown a lot in the over the last fifteen years since this happened but like I also had an interview at ah at sort of a fancy pants.

13:54.93
howtosucceed
Um, yeah.

14:01.87
Rachel
Like Off-broadway Theater company and they were all just like so bored and grumpy and I I just didn't I don't know I watched me from being like I don't know if I would want to work there and then I met Kara and she was like could not have been more like overflowing with passion about running this company and doing new musicals and.

14:04.00
howtosucceed
Call. Ah.

14:10.70
howtosucceed
Right. Um, ah.

14:21.52
Rachel
Ah, so I started interning there and I assistant directed for the first time assisted her and then the other intern who was supposed to assist on the next show in the season dropped out and so I asked if they would let me do that one too and they did.

14:25.85
howtosucceed
That's very cool.

14:37.11
howtosucceed
So you like accidentally became a director. Well it it found you? yeah.

14:39.95
Rachel
Um, yeah, basically yeah, um so I was like oh assisting is cool. Yeah exactly I was like oh assisting is cool and then after doing those two shows I was like maybe I can do this and so one of my really close friends from college is a playwright and prospect had like off nights. They did they used to have a a dark night series where you could come in with your show and like do your show on the set of what whatever was going on and so my friend and I did an evening of his short plays that was the first thing I ever directed. Um, and yeah I'm sure it was terrible I really don't remember um.

15:03.68
howtosucceed
Yeah.

15:12.58
howtosucceed
Um, wow.

15:17.68
howtosucceed
Um, you got to start somewhere? Yeah yeah.

15:19.49
Rachel
Ah, yeah, but exactly you got to start somewhere and it was very nice of him to like let me do that? Um, but yeah, so that's that's sort of how it happened and then because I didn't go to grad school. Um, now now we're in the sort of like how I got where I am chapter but ah.

15:33.00
howtosucceed
Sure. Great.

15:35.99
Rachel
Because I didn't go to grad school my path was that I worked in every like terrible black box theater on the island of Manhattan um, so i.

15:51.77
howtosucceed
Ah, so you got a lot of experience.

15:54.51
Rachel
I'm honestly I'm so grateful for all of that experience because and and after a while I was like I am so sick of this? Um, but it was you know toting like all the costumes and props from my own closet to wherever you know, but I did I ah.

15:56.79
howtosucceed
Um, yeah, sure.

16:06.70
howtosucceed
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

16:13.00
Rachel
I directed several times twice 3 times 3 times in the now defunct west village musical theater festival um, which was actually one of the places was really nice but 1 of them was um Thirteenth street rep just like a terrible a terrible.

16:20.64
howtosucceed
Aha.

16:27.44
howtosucceed
Um, okay yeah.

16:31.15
Rachel
Um, little black box and I I just sort of did any festival that like would have me like I I did the Estrogenius festival which still exists um stuff like that. So and then.

16:36.71
howtosucceed
Um, yeah.

16:46.29
Rachel
After a few years of doing that I started to get accepted to like young director programs. So I did directors lab chicago I did um I was an intern at williamstown for a summer um I spent and I I applied to these programs over and over and over and over until they would let me in. Um.

16:49.58
howtosucceed
Out.

17:04.84
Rachel
I applied like 3 or 4 times to williamstown and I think 3 times to the actress theater of Louisville ah apprentice company which also no longer exists fortunately and I was there for like a full season and ah yeah, so that was like those were sort of the early.

17:10.90
howtosucceed
Yeah.

17:16.68
howtosucceed
Cool.

17:24.16
howtosucceed
Yeah, so I have 2 questions. Um, wait did I already forgot one. Um well I'm curious. Yeah so oh okay, did you.

17:24.36
Rachel
Experiences. Um, yeah.

17:35.51
Rachel
You're gonna remember it's gonna be great.

17:41.48
howtosucceed
Feel did you suffer from imposter syndrome during those years because you had gone to school to be a playwright or did you feel set up to be a director.

17:55.96
Rachel
Um I felt I felt set up to be a director Dramaturgically um you know I was and am very good at story because I had.

18:11.97
howtosucceed
Um, yeah, learning that? yeah.

18:13.16
Rachel
Spent 4 years being a playwright and learning that. Um, and so I I felt I always felt like I had a really strong handle on what was successful and what was not successful about story I felt I had a knack for talking to actors.

18:29.29
howtosucceed
Ah, yeah.

18:30.97
Rachel
And sort of like getting what I needed out of them and like if they didn't understand it in 1 way like freeming it in a different way. Um, and that was also something that I really learned from assistant directing that was the other thing that was sort of happening in parallel was I was doing all this assisting and just like stealing things. Smart things that the directors I was working for were saying.

18:45.62
howtosucceed
Ah.

18:48.45
howtosucceed
Um, right? Yeah, that's great. Ah oh yeah, interesting.

18:50.99
Rachel
Um, then as now staging gives me terrible anxiety. Um, and that is and I do think that's partly imposter syndrome like I do think first like first stay of staging is always.

19:07.67
howtosucceed
Oh yeah.

19:09.70
Rachel
Ah, nightmare and I and I think that's partly imposter syndrome because I'm like this is the day that everyone's gonna realize that I don't know what I'm doing like I'm so comfortable around the table I just want to stay around the table forever and I'm like no I have to stage the play. But I think part of the reason too is because as I was doing these like 10 minute plays.

19:16.92
howtosucceed
Sure.

19:28.19
Rachel
In a black box. There was no set designer. You know what? I mean like there was no one that I was collaborating with on the like visual of the thing so most of the time.

19:31.33
howtosucceed
Yeah.

19:39.55
howtosucceed
Sure.

19:47.24
Rachel
The festival would say to me and to the playwright. Well, what do you guys need Ho Oh my God What? what do I need and so right and so I often responded to that by keeping it as minimal as possible and I would then I would see you know in the festival other.

19:50.99
howtosucceed
Um, oh I Like what do I want? yeah.

20:06.90
Rachel
Casts like toting a whole set onto the stage I would be like oh yeah, like I could have done that too I could have asked for like a couch and a dresser and a dining room table and but I always kept it like so so minimal. Um, because I didn't know how to design a set.

20:13.79
howtosucceed
Sure.

20:19.48
howtosucceed
But you weren't relying on those things. Yeah, but that probably made you a better director because you couldn't use that. Yeah, that's really interesting I think when I was sorry, go ahead.

20:25.44
Rachel
I Hope so but yeah, that is where I no I shouldn't say like that is a place where I was I struggled and now as I work with such designers more frequently. It's such a gift.

20:41.55
howtosucceed
Um, yeah, ah right.

20:43.66
Rachel
Have something to respond to rather than to sort of like create the whole thing out of whole cloth which I um isn't I Just don't know how to do that. But anyway what were you gonna say.

20:51.25
howtosucceed
Yeah, and like it's hard for it to feel realististic like we were talking about the other day about Hamilton and how it it can feel a little bit like after school is special and there's not a lot of that like set that they're working off of so if it if there's nothing.

20:58.58
Rachel
Um.

21:02.92
Rachel
You.

21:11.19
howtosucceed
Then the actors also have a hard time like putting themselves in the scene. Maybe if like they're supposed to be sitting at a dining room table and there is no dining room table like that relies so much on the actors and the the audience so it is like a balance I think when I was first in theater like in high school or before then.

21:15.18
Rachel
Um, yeah, totally yeah for sure for sure.

21:30.60
howtosucceed
I remember thinking that what the director did was staging only like oh the director is the one that tells people where to go and now you know 20 years in my career I'm like oh the director actually, that's that's a lot of what they like they.

21:32.56
Rachel
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

21:46.19
howtosucceed
They don't do that much staging or they do that as well as the more important storytelling and tablework side. Um, so yeah I don't know if there's there's more for you to speak to about that. But it's.

21:50.91
Rachel
Yeah.

21:56.48
Rachel
Yeah, no I absolutely think that why the thing I always say about this is that remember a few years ago when the Tonys eliminated the sound design category and the reason one of the reasons they gave was nobody knows what a sound designer does which is ridiculous. But.

22:07.10
howtosucceed
Um, yeah.

22:10.62
howtosucceed
Oh my gosh. That's silly reason.

22:16.46
Rachel
I I remember thinking then and still feeling that if we're going to eliminate categories based on that we should certainly eliminate best director because nobody knows what a director does like no so right? and everybody thinks it's about like right.

22:26.17
howtosucceed
Right? That's not a good reason to decide what to honor? Why don't we teach people what they do not just ah accepted. Yeah.

22:35.50
Rachel
But yeah, it is about like stand over there and stand over there and whatever. But obviously right, it's about shaping the play. It's about giving notes. It's about and it's about leading the team and having a sort of overall aesthetic vision of what you want the show to look like and then making sure that all the pieces. Fit together to make that vision happen. You know, um, both in terms of like the cast and the design and all of that so that everybody feels like they're making the same play and that when you watch it, You feel like everybody's in the same because we've all had that experience of seeing a show where we're like what show it you in.

22:58.57
howtosucceed
Um, yeah.

23:05.32
howtosucceed
Yeah, story.

23:12.30
howtosucceed
Yeah, yeah, absolutely right? That's yeah, that is something good.

23:14.33
Rachel
You know or like why are you wearing that costume in this show. Um, so I really sorry I I really um I always tell people to read. Um the recent biography of Mike Nichols um which Mark Harris wrote and first of all, it's a total page turner. It's like really fun and gossipy and great. But it's it's amazing at describing what it is that a director does because it takes you through my nichols process with all of these different shows over and over and over in like what he did to shape them.

23:45.34
howtosucceed
Yeah.

23:52.17
Rachel
Ah, before you even got to staging? Um, it's really really good. So 5 stars.

23:54.96
howtosucceed
Wow, That's cool. Yeah, um I will have to check that out I'm taking notes on things that I want to ask you? Um, as you mentioned creating the. Environment in the room is something that I think you are really good at in both creating like you are able to create an environment that feels casual and safe so people can be themselves but also respectful so that they're not like bringing their drama in.

24:14.72
Rachel
Um, thank you.

24:26.17
Rachel
Um, thank you. That's really nice. Um.

24:29.70
howtosucceed
Yeah, and maybe that's all we need to to say about that I don't need to ask you how you know that unless you want to talked about that. But oh yeah.

24:36.82
Rachel
Yeah I don't I mean I have a lot of experience teaching so that was my my day job for years was public speaking and workshop facilities and I think a lot of what I learned.

24:47.26
howtosucceed
Right.

24:56.57
Rachel
Um, doing that what I and I learned it from my coworkers and I learned it from my bosses and I also just like learned it from experience is that one of the one of the things that I could do to make it go smoothly was. I was show up authentically as myself and not try to pretend that I knew things that I didn't know and not try to seem cool to a bunch of teenagers and like not make it seem like I knew.

25:15.00
howtosucceed
Yeah.

25:23.90
howtosucceed
Right? yeah.

25:29.78
Rachel
Better than they did necessarily about their own life and experiences. But that's and because of that and I think I think that builds trust really fast. Um, so you know.

25:31.85
howtosucceed
Um, yeah.

25:39.23
howtosucceed
Yes.

25:46.66
Rachel
I Think that's part of it is That's just like I think and I think too that that requires like it's very humbling to learn that um and teaching is very humbling um and like a lot of the time I was teaching in environments that were.

25:54.47
howtosucceed
Um, yes, yeah.

26:07.44
Rachel
That I was not used to being in and so like environments where I was like the only white person for example, um and I just but again I learned so much from my coworkers who were almost exclusively people of color. Um that they just showed up authentically and like if I also did that.

26:08.36
howtosucceed
Um, yeah.

26:26.36
Rachel
Then he was gonna it was gonna go ok you know? Thanks yeah.

26:27.86
howtosucceed
Right? That's also great like life advice just be yourself. Um, one thing that that makes me think about actually that I was curious to to bring up with you is working with. Ah, men versus women and I have found that sometimes the people that like I love working with women and of course we have to to acknowledge nonbinary folks that have been incredible to work with.

26:43.83
Rachel
Um, but e.

27:00.78
Rachel
Um, yes.

27:03.50
howtosucceed
Um, but I also find that sometimes working with other women is more fraught because there's like scarcity mindset about it kind of like oh well, there's not room for all of us here. Um.

27:08.14
Rachel
Um, yeah.

27:16.17
Rachel
Um, yeah for sure.

27:17.44
howtosucceed
Maybe not necessarily on like teams if it's like a director and a music director and a choreographer like that's pretty standard but if it was maybe like 2 women on the music team and you know something like that but thinking about 1 of the reasons why I think that's tricky is because I think like.

27:23.82
Rachel
Um, and hope.

27:28.82
Rachel
Um, a.

27:36.68
howtosucceed
When I was getting started I felt like I couldn't show up authentically as myself that I had to act older or more authoritative or stronger because it was me and a bunch of men and and like you have to work so much harder to advance. Ah, especially.

27:47.90
Rachel
Um E right.

27:53.70
Rachel
Um, yes, yes.

27:55.49
howtosucceed
A young woman but also like you're saying like I still feel young in my career even though like I'm not young and I and I still feel like I'm looked at as young sometimes so there's a lot there but ah being able to show up authentically as yourself.

28:02.52
Rachel
Um, yeah.

28:09.16
Rachel
Um, yeah.

28:15.30
Rachel
Are.

28:15.33
howtosucceed
As a female director of a young age. That's hard to do you really do have to be comfortable yourself and not have that imposter syndrome and just be like this is how I'm going to show up and it's actually better if I do that.

28:24.79
Rachel
Um, yeah, yeah, it is actually better and it it is also like if you I have found and I don't want to make this into like a universal proclamation because I don't think it's universally true. But I have found that when I'm dealing with an older men in a power position and when I advocate for myself, they respond to that because that's what a man would do right? So when I would go to I would come back to the producer and say you know actually I going to need to be paid more. They might not.

28:52.69
howtosucceed
Yeah.

29:01.60
howtosucceed
Um, yeah.

29:03.18
Rachel
Hey anymore, but they were never like who do you think you are you know what? I mean like so when you have when you're when you're working with people who are very like direct. It kind of like lets you be direct to um so yeah, and like I remember.

29:04.86
howtosucceed
Right? it's.

29:14.46
howtosucceed
Yeah.

29:21.98
Rachel
Ah time I was years ago I was assisting a male director and I've been mostly very very very very lucky with the male directors I've worked for um and he like Cracked a joke that I do not like about me in front of the rest of the all male creative team.

29:28.14
howtosucceed
Um, yeah.

29:38.71
howtosucceed
Um, yeah.

29:40.47
Rachel
And I didn't mean to I was just I just got angry like I didn't mean to sort of like put him in his place but I turned to him and I turned to I just like saw red and I turned to him and I said I don't like that. Don't say that to me and he I I mean I I I don't know I truly do not know what came over me.

29:43.62
howtosucceed
Of course.

29:51.94
howtosucceed
Wow! Good for you I would be like silent I'd be like ah ah real ok that's incredible.

30:00.29
Rachel
And he didn't know that he had done anything that he truly did not mean anything by it and did not know he'd done anything wrong and he was so shocked that he said oh I'm so sorry and like that was the end of that and we never had that problem again. But like I don't know that I would do that under any of their circumstances. But I just sort of like.

30:05.90
howtosucceed
Ah, wow.

30:16.45
howtosucceed
I.

30:18.46
Rachel
My eyes turned black and I was like no, but um, so yeah, it was just like it was wild. But so that's what I Again, it's like I So I think we we do run the risk of being told that we're like difficult or whatever. But I I.

30:23.96
howtosucceed
Ah, good for you. That's funny.

30:33.76
Rachel
I personally have found that when I'm like very direct and very specific with men that they respond to it because that's what other men do.

30:38.29
howtosucceed
Yeah, but that reminds me of a time when I did something like that where I stood up to the artistic director of a theater company because I remember it was it was kind of crunch time in a show and we were having a lot of technical difficulties with like the set and stuff.

30:50.40
Rachel
Um, who god.

30:54.58
howtosucceed
And but they it's a regional theater so they have their schedule that they always do where it's like we always have our 10 out of 12 s on Tuesday Wednesday and we like and the band comes in on Thursday like they have their set schedule and they've always done it this way and so the band was supposed to come that next night and I said in the.

31:03.23
Rachel
Um, yeah.

31:12.76
howtosucceed
Production meeting at the end of a really long day I said I don't think we should call the band tomorrow night because that because we always call the band tomorrow night like that shouldn't be the reason we should call the band when we're ready to have the band and he like did not like that that thought and um.

31:20.85
Rachel
Um, right exactly right? Yeah I'm sure. Yeah, um, it is really scary.

31:32.40
howtosucceed
And we had this kind of tense discussion in front of everyone and it was scary for me. But I thought that I yeah I thought that I handled it pretty well and he actually apologized to me the next day which was incredible and also the costume designer. Yeah I was like whoa.

31:42.55
Rachel
Um, Wow. Ah.

31:49.76
howtosucceed
The costume designer also like the next day was like wow good for you for saying that like I really impressed. You said that I was like I don't know it just it just came out of my mouth I mean you know me sometimes I just say what I think and now I'm finally at a place right? Where now I'm finally in a place where like oh.

31:56.38
Rachel
Um, that's awesome, right? But that's good. Um, right.

32:08.26
howtosucceed
Maybe I do know what I'm talking about. So it's okay to say what I think but it's always a little scary.

32:13.31
Rachel
Yeah, well and again, it's like going it goes back to the impoctor syndrome right? when you feel like you don't know what you're talking about or that the other person feels like you don't know what you're talking about.

32:17.82
howtosucceed
Exactly. Right.

32:25.14
Rachel
You're already at such a disadvantage and if you're like no actually I do know what I'm saying and I do know what I need and I'm telling you what the problem is and I'm telling you how to fix it again like sometimes people do respond to that if it's if it's assertive you know.

32:31.45
howtosucceed
Yeah, yeah, respond? Yeah yeah, but there really is no other way. Yeah.

32:41.47
Rachel
But I think being a sort of is really hard and I think most people struggle with it Most people are passive or passive aggressive because being a sort of and really hard. So.

32:49.52
howtosucceed
And yeah, and and plenty of men suffer from Imposter syndrome and have a hard time So I don't want to be like oh men are this way because that's not true. Yeah, it's not gender specific. Um, oh yes, you mentioned and I definitely wanted it.

32:52.76
Rachel
Um, yes, right right? No Modal yeah.

33:06.40
howtosucceed
To talk about this ah negotiating contracts because I think that you are you are somebody that I send contracts to to be like hey what do you think about this? Um, ah yeah, let's see if we I don't know if this will will work but we could do something like.

33:07.21
Rachel
Um, yeah.

33:12.72
Rachel
I Well I am so flattered by that. So thank you.

33:24.24
howtosucceed
3 ways to approach negotiating a contract or you know 4 ideas for for that. Um I wanna riff on that.

33:28.95
Rachel
Um, yeah.

33:31.94
Rachel
Yeah, um, let me think about what the best way is to to talk about it I mean basically like the thing that I always try to do I don't know something about my contract is I try to figure out what industry standard is.

33:50.49
howtosucceed
Yeah, how do you figure that out.

33:51.21
Rachel
So if I like it So I this and this is partly why I think salary transparency is so important and then we all need to talk about how much we're being paid all the time. Um, so I will for example, like.

34:00.93
howtosucceed
Yeah.

34:07.55
Rachel
If I was being offered like a Broadway associate job I would call my friend who's been a Broadway associate and I would say what were you paid when you did X Y X show like if it's a show you know in another place like what did you ask for for housing. Like I I just I will reach out to people who have done these things before I have done them and ask their advice about like what they asked for and what and what they got. Um I Also really rely on the union. Um, so.

34:28.90
howtosucceed
Um, yeah.

34:39.10
howtosucceed
Yeah.

34:42.10
Rachel
And I I one of the things I definitely recommend to folks if they can do it is to get involved with the with sdc the stage directors and career arts union as soon as you can so like I a hundred years ago was and they have um, used to be called observerships and now it's.

34:50.98
howtosucceed
Out quote.

34:59.29
Rachel
Under the umbrella of like the professional development program and there's different things you can observe someone you can shadow someone you can assist in you like apply these different opportunities and they pay you and it's really amazing networking and artistic and opportunities. It's just it's so cool. Um, and because of that I got a big discount on being.

35:10.29
howtosucceed
Cool, Very cool. Yeah.

35:17.13
Rachel
Becoming an associate member which is like $300 for the whole year would you become an associate member if you have a question about your contract you can call them on the phone and I'll help you so like even just so even just recently when I was negotiating my contract for Mickey and frank.

35:19.90
howtosucceed
Okay.

35:24.82
howtosucceed
Oh wow, That's cool.

35:33.29
howtosucceed
Um, yeah, yeah.

35:35.38
Rachel
I didn't know what feed a quote and so I called the rep for the development contract and I explained what I was doing and I said can you help me understand what feed a quote. Um and they were like we as you know there's no minimum for the development contract. But.

35:45.94
howtosucceed
Great.

35:54.83
Rachel
Here's the number that we tell people. Yeah, there are there are minimums for certain of the sccc contracts which is great based on like number of seats and in the house and river um, but they said you know when we here's the number that we recommend to people based on what a lot of like Lord Theater a weekly rate that a lot of lord theaters use.

35:54.95
howtosucceed
Um, oh wow.

35:58.60
howtosucceed
Sure right.

36:12.92
howtosucceed
Um, great. Yeah yeah.

36:14.59
Rachel
So that helped me figure out what fee I was going to quote. Um, so yeah, doing your homework about like what is the standard not being afraid to ask for thing because the worst they can do is say no you um.

36:28.46
howtosucceed
And they probably won't like rescind the job offer though. They'll just say no feel like that's everyone's fear. Yeah.

36:33.87
Rachel
Exactly exactly because if you're at the point already right? If you're at the point already where you're negotiating a contract then they don't want to rescind the offer That's like a huge pain for them at that point. Um, so so yeah, just sort of like asking for things with.

36:41.39
howtosucceed
Yeah, right? That's good to know. Yeah.

36:52.61
Rachel
Clarity and politely and with confidence I think it's It's a big um is a big part of it as well.

36:59.51
howtosucceed
Um, so if there is a a minimum. Um, do you try to negotiate past that like always low.

37:07.40
Rachel
Yeah, for sure because the minimums are low like the minimum. The new tier contract just got negotiated so tier is like any theater company that doesn't have. Like a prenegotiated agreement right? So like not a lot theater. Not like so yeah, if it's not a lot theater then ah, it's a tier theater for the most part. Um, and if it's not also not like a Broadway Theater I'm oversimplifying this but you know what I Mean. So.

37:29.43
howtosucceed
Yeah, um.

37:36.12
howtosucceed
Um, ah.

37:42.78
howtosucceed
Um, yeah.

37:43.49
Rachel
Are tier minimum. So the minimum for tier two which I think is like I can't remember how many seats it is if it's ninety nine or a hundred ah or ah it must be 199 the minimum is.

37:53.55
howtosucceed
Oh sure. Okay, right? that makes sense.

38:02.52
Rachel
On the new contract is $2500 and that that that's a for a 4 rehearsal process. So like yeah, that's like a six week process so sdc always is like this is the minimum like ask for more money but like that's the minimum. Plus.

38:03.62
howtosucceed
For a how much work a full. Oh oh Wow. So like yeah, that's low.

38:21.49
Rachel
But your pension help right? So I always ask for more I Always ask what you need them. But yeah.

38:25.45
howtosucceed
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so I think I have learned from you to always negotiate like always ask for more and to not be afraid to do that. Um.

38:36.22
Rachel
Totally well I learned that from another director friend of mine because I was assisting on a show at Matt and theater club in 2018 and they um.

38:45.60
howtosucceed
Yeah.

38:50.59
Rachel
They're not. They're a nonprofit. They're not paying a commercial Broadway rate and she was doing it gas. What's different and my friend was doing a commercial broadway show and we were talking about what we were getting paid and she said did you negotiate and I said no and she was like.

38:54.72
howtosucceed
Oh interesting. Okay, yeah, um.

39:04.90
howtosucceed
Um, yeah, yeah, it's so hard to when you are like I really want this gig I literally heard myself say to a producer.

39:09.67
Rachel
You should always negotiate your contract and I was like oh my God you're right.

39:17.39
Rachel
Um, yeah, it is reallyly apart.

39:23.10
howtosucceed
Very recently when they offered beat them when they told me the ah pay I was like I'm just happy to be a part of this and I am I am but ah.

39:30.56
Rachel
Um, and listen sometimes that's true. Yeah.

39:34.95
howtosucceed
I was like Katie this is when you negotiate and also say that ah it's still so hard.

39:36.27
Rachel
Um, um, yeah, right? Well I mean even when I was negotiating for Mickey and Frank I quoted Tom me a rate and I said if this is prohibitive. Let me know because I think I am the.

39:44.29
howtosucceed
Yeah. Right. Yes, yeah, but so yeah, totally yeah and it was absolutely worth it to be a part of so and like fulfilling in. Yeah.

39:54.70
Rachel
A great fit for this project. So I want to make it work so but but that's also because he's like 1 dude you know what? I mean like if it was like Broadway and be different and it was totally worth it right? and but that's also unusual. That's worth it.

40:13.38
howtosucceed
And that's the other hard thing is like sometimes the projects that you think will be the most fulfilling are the most fun to work with are not and then the ones that you don't really know are just the greatest and it's like the pay does not correlate to your experience ever. But I guess that's also more reason to ask for money.

40:26.27
Rachel
Um, right? no. But so true.

40:32.35
howtosucceed
Is that you can't count on the experience being good so you might as well try to get some money if it's what you do for a living which that was going to be a question for you is do you have a side gig or have you had side gigs.

40:36.36
Rachel
Um, what.

40:47.89
Rachel
Um I have always had side gigs. Um I for years and years I Yeah so I taught on the side and for me like I never wanted my day job to be in theater because I liked to keep it.

40:49.19
howtosucceed
Her.

40:59.64
howtosucceed
Yeah, ah yeah.

41:05.60
Rachel
Separate I never wanted to feel like theater was the only important thing in my life or that theater was like the most important thing in the world. You know I was like I need to have a little perspective on like the big picture. Um, thank you? Um, so I and I also had other interests. You know what I mean like.

41:14.40
howtosucceed
Interesting. That's very forward thinking of you I'm impressed. Um, yeah.

41:25.38
Rachel
Ah, so when I after I was no longer working at the preschool which was not a great fit for my R's life as I told you um I started working for um, the Mayor's it's now called the Mayor's office to end gender based violence.

41:31.34
howtosucceed
Yeah.

41:45.10
Rachel
Um, and I co-facilitated workshops on healthy and unhealthy relationships to young people between the ages of 1125 25 all over the 5 Girlsughs um I also trained adults who worked with teenagers to like deal with teenagers who are in.

41:46.30
howtosucceed
Um, ah.

41:57.27
howtosucceed
Um.

42:05.28
Rachel
Intimate partner violent situations. Ah, and yeah, it was wild I mean it was like that was again and a lot of time teaching in an environment where that I'd never been in my life like where I was a total fish out of water. Um.

42:05.38
howtosucceed
Wow.

42:24.20
Rachel
But like I said before it taught me a lot about how to like walk into a room and like establish rapport like because you have to in the first two minutes or you're sunk. Um, so I did that and for a long time I did that for about 8 years and then.

42:29.20
howtosucceed
Right? Yeah yeah.

42:42.76
Rachel
For about 10 years. Um I taught sex Ed So I worked for a company um called sex Disgust here and I facilitated with my co-facilitator a program that at the time you know now it's 2023 and we've learned more about gender inclusivity. But. At the time it was called ah I Love female orgasm and it was all about like women's sexuality and pleasure and it was very like it was always very inclusive um of like Trans and nonbinary folks and their experiences. Um and you know that like not all women.

43:04.17
howtosucceed
Excellent.

43:13.65
howtosucceed
Ah, ah sure good.

43:20.50
Rachel
Vaginas and that I've worn were the vaginas woman. Um, but so it was and that was also that was like on a much bigger scale so that was like I would walking through a room and there would be 500 people instead of 25 people um and again it's like you have to just be yourself in front of all these people.

43:20.64
howtosucceed
Right.

43:29.23
howtosucceed
Well.

43:35.12
howtosucceed
Um, yeah, right? yeah.

43:39.11
Rachel
And like that just is or they smell it on you and then you're done. So ah so those were my two sort of main um side jobs for a long long time I've been a personal assistant I worked for the playwright. Best wall for a while I worked as a personal assistant to um.

43:53.90
howtosucceed
You know.

43:57.42
Rachel
David Henry Huang for god almost ten years just crazy. He just like his calendar is just like part of my brain you know like it's just yeah, yeah, um so yeah, just like a bunch of different.

43:59.80
howtosucceed
Oh Wow Cool Oh is that still something you do oh I didn't know that that's cool. Yeah, it's really cool. How those experiences have made you a better director.

44:16.46
Rachel
Watch it and things.

44:21.10
Rachel
Yeah, it is really cool I feel really grateful for that and they definitely like informed my directing work you know I think when you're in these spaces and you're hearing so much about how like primarily women feel.

44:31.78
howtosucceed
Um, yeah.

44:40.97
Rachel
So diminished in their lives. It's like I think it really without my knowing it. It really did affect my artistic work because I wanted to like make all this space in wherever I could for women to like take up as much space as possible.

44:42.92
howtosucceed
Yeah.

44:55.68
howtosucceed
Sure yeah.

45:00.62
Rachel
Um, so and be like prickly and you know unlikable and complicated like in the stories that I was drawn to right? So so yeah I Definitely think it like it certainly influenced my work.

45:11.99
howtosucceed
Ah.

45:17.28
howtosucceed
Yeah, that's really great. Um I would like to hear about summer 1976 ah yeah and your work on that like how did you get that show and what was it like.

45:24.11
Rachel
Um, oh my gosh speaking of complicated women.

45:33.90
Rachel
Um, so in 2017 I applied again for the second or third time to the Manhattan Theater Club directing fellowship. Um, and the way that that fellowship works is that.

45:39.50
howtosucceed
Who you.

45:47.43
Rachel
Or I don't know how it works now. But at the time the way that it worked was that you would be accepted into a pool of fellows and that if the director came into the season and their show did not already have someone as most directors of Mill want to bring their own person. But if they didn't or if they would like Accept O fellow as the assistant.

45:52.37
howtosucceed
Okay.

46:06.33
Rachel
You would be paired with someone and so I had gone through my whole season without being paired with anyone and that was my expectation and then in summer like June 2018 I

46:08.27
howtosucceed
Okay.

46:20.57
howtosucceed
Her.

46:25.37
Rachel
An email from them and they said would you are you available? um to do our next show and the next show was a british play by Richard Bean who wrote 1 man 2 governors it was called the nap and they had brought it over from the u k.

46:36.20
howtosucceed
Okay, yeah.

46:40.85
Rachel
Doing their own product of it and I say and the director was Dan Sulvan who's like an unbelievably talented director. He's been at this for you know, sixty years like like yes, whatever you need me to do I'll do it I'm in so I did that show with Dan um, and it was.

46:43.54
howtosucceed
Okay.

46:49.81
howtosucceed
Um, well yeah, yeah, yeah.

46:59.86
Rachel
Crazy and I had a great time and I like got to know everybody at Mtc And in fact, the artistic producer who interviewed me I already knew him because I had baby sad his kids. So yeah, um, so yeah, we did the nap together and then.

47:03.17
howtosucceed
Ah.

47:09.69
howtosucceed
Oh wow there you go.

47:17.84
Rachel
Didn't hadn't done any assisting really at all and then covid happened like after that and then covid happened um and then when I saw that someone I should 76 was happening I wrote to mtc and I said does Dan have someone because dant listen Dan is great but Dan does not do email.

47:30.90
howtosucceed
Wow.

47:35.89
Rachel
I knew that if I wrote to Dan directly I would not hear back so I bypassed him and I went well one of the things that I that's a big lesson that I learned um well let me come back to my lesson I learned but so they said he doesn't have someone. Do you want to do it and I said yes.

47:36.34
howtosucceed
He would I love that you took the initiative. That's awesome that you just did that.

47:48.85
howtosucceed
Okay.

47:55.47
Rachel
And then I had a contract in my email like it happened very quickly. Um, so like oh okay Broadway associate it? Um, yeah, but so yeah that again that was a big lesson that I learned about asking for the job and that was ah something that Evan Cabinet who

47:57.96
howtosucceed
Oh my gosh. Oh ah, that's so cool. Look at that.

48:08.36
howtosucceed
Um, yeah.

48:14.26
Rachel
Like an incredible human being and is now the artistic director of LCTThree that's something that he taught me very specifically when I assisted him during my apprentice year at active Steve reviewable because he had a broadway show coming up and it was he said every time I have a show announced.

48:26.00
howtosucceed
Ah.

48:32.12
Rachel
I Get a bunch of like oblique emails from young directors who are like hey I really liked your work on your last thing you did like hope you're well and he was like she was like just asked for the job. There's a notion you in it right? like you got to just ask so I started doing that.

48:40.98
howtosucceed
Um, oh like what do you want.

48:51.67
Rachel
And it really has I mean especially with assisting it tends to it has work well for me to just be like hey if you end up needing someone and call me. Um, so that was how I got there with with someone id 76 and I already had a rapport with Dan and um.

48:54.45
howtosucceed
Um, yeah, that's amazing. Yeah.

49:06.60
howtosucceed
Yeah.

49:09.65
Rachel
Yeah, it was really unique. A really unique experience. A 2 person play meant. The room was very very small and Dan kept the room really small because the play was very challenging to execute. It was the 2 of them 8 max.

49:20.25
howtosucceed
Ah, her.

49:23.60
howtosucceed
So like how many people in the room that was like 2 stage managers understudies 3 Okay no oh okay, yes.

49:29.29
Rachel
Absolute max dan free stage managers. no no undertudies the undersons joined us right before we reached the theater so we had psm Asm P A me dan.

49:46.23
howtosucceed
Dan well so like a very important room but a small room. Yeah yeah, that's crazy.

49:49.22
Rachel
David auburn playwright more lenny and Jessica Hecht and that was it and basically nobody very very high stakes feeling real play had never been. It was a world premiere straight to Broadway so I think people were yes I think people were sort of like.

50:06.72
howtosucceed
Yeah.

50:07.38
Rachel
Is this going to work like we don't we don't have any idea how an audience is going to respond to any of this. Um, like I said I mean we did this sort of standard number we did I guess we had about three weeks of pre use. Um.

50:12.11
howtosucceed
And how many previous did you guys? do.

50:20.32
howtosucceed
Okay, so you had big names at least like you knew that that was draw enough for something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, wow.

50:26.72
Rachel
Um, oh for sure that their names are draw I mean David Auburn wrote proof. So like that's a huge jaw. Um yeah for sure and it sold very very well. Um, and then it also happens to be reviewed well and.

50:38.63
howtosucceed
Yeah, that's great I was is a great play. Really great. Yeah.

50:43.51
Rachel
People responded to it. But yeah, we didn't know yes, really good. It's really unique and really special and they're both so wonderful and Dave got a lot of like I can't believe a man wrote this um which he was like I don't know what to say? um, which like happened to be a man.

50:55.85
howtosucceed
Yeah, ah yeah I don't know what to tell you about that. Ah.

51:01.24
Rachel
Um, but yes, so being in that room and watching those 2 women work was really a gift. They are both I mean they're so talented. Obviously.

51:11.10
howtosucceed
Um, yeah, yeah.

51:17.66
Rachel
But the thing I say to people about it all the time is like I guess just and Laura are both probably 60 ish and they're so in their prime and so at the height of their power and so gorgeous and so nice.

51:24.46
howtosucceed
Okay.

51:31.67
howtosucceed
Yeah.

51:35.39
Rachel
And I was like oh these are 2 like very very very powerful actors at at the peak of their craft even they're not like they're not corn were old. You know they're not diminished in any way they don't like up full power.

51:40.27
howtosucceed
Um, right? ah right? Ah, that's so cool. Yeah yeah.

51:53.40
Rachel
And you just there just aren't that many roles for women that age where you get to sort of like experience that where they're not diminished in some way you know? Ah so that was just like really heartening.

52:01.21
howtosucceed
Yeah, it's interesting too because their roles were like that the characters that they were playing were not in that place in their life. That's so cool. Yeah, interesting And what was your yeah.

52:13.27
Rachel
Um, right? That's so true. Yeah, so I just like love reading that air all the time.

52:20.74
howtosucceed
Yeah I Oh man you must have learned so much and what was your like role like what was your day to day like for that. What did you do.

52:30.15
Rachel
Um, does a great question. Ah what did I do I honestly, not that much until we got into the theater I did not do that much because David was there a lot and. Ah, Dan is very self-sufficient and he's not the kind of director who's like go got my lunch like take my notes for me. That's just like not the way that he is um, right? exactly? well.

52:48.44
howtosucceed
Ah.

52:53.91
howtosucceed
Yeah, um.

52:58.20
howtosucceed
And you also didn't need to use like 2 rooms or anything like that. Yeah.

53:06.38
Rachel
At the beginning some on the days when day was not there I would I kept it I kept track of all the questions that came up for him questions suggestions cuts changes that we're proposing and then I I would catalog them and then Dan would sort of filter them and send them to him so it was.

53:18.18
howtosucceed
Ah, yeah.

53:23.81
howtosucceed
Yeah.

53:25.73
Rachel
Really was sort of like the dramaturg in that way in the room. Um, once we got into the theater then I ended up taking Gans notes during a run. Um, then I I started to rehearse the understudies which was super fun. Um, and really.

53:37.34
howtosucceed
Ah.

53:40.31
howtosucceed
Yeah.

53:42.92
Rachel
Wild with a play like that where you come to associate those roles so much with the 2 actors and their roles were like so complex and like it just it's the actors. The undertud were great that tough job. Um, no nope.

53:46.64
howtosucceed
The people.

53:52.32
howtosucceed
Um, yeah, did they go on neither of them. Wow.

54:02.78
Rachel
You know nobody went on. Um we did a run one day once they were like ready to run which took a while in part because the lighting in that show was there were over a hundred like you in that show and they were so they were timed really really specifically so the state manager would be like you can't stand up there.

54:13.14
howtosucceed
Wow.

54:20.37
howtosucceed
Oh.

54:22.59
Rachel
Are you be out of your light you know or like you have to be done walking by the time you say your line or like the light complete so they had to like learn and yeah, they had to learn and practice all that stuff. Um, and then once and they had to learn so much incredibly dense text.

54:25.89
howtosucceed
Yeah, well, that's that's the life. Yeah oh wow.

54:39.50
howtosucceed
Yeah, yeah, wow that is cool.

54:40.78
Rachel
And once they were ready then Jess did a run with Laura's understudy one day and then Laura's Laura did a run with justice understudy which was very cool to see. Um so I did that I I ended up doing a lot of other sort of um. Mtc stuff like I moderated some talkbacks which was really it was really fun. There was one I time I had to do it alone which like I can do what is not my favorite. Um and then one day I got to do with both actors which was great and one day I got to do with the playwright which is.

55:01.10
howtosucceed
Oh yeah, you did that when I saw it.

55:07.75
howtosucceed
Um, yeah, ah, cool. Yeah.

55:19.10
Rachel
Just like bucket list for me. Um I did some donor events for them which was really silly and fun where they would like people would give a lot of money would like I'll go to have a nice dinner somewhere and then someone from the artistic stop would do like a Q and a with me. Um, it was so that was cool. Um.

55:24.85
howtosucceed
No.

55:32.51
howtosucceed
Oh nice.

55:38.43
Rachel
And yeah, so that was what I and a lot of it I mean this is maybe going to sound to me but a lot of it is about like about being an associate is just about showing up and like physically being there because like you never know.

55:51.36
howtosucceed
Um, yeah, yeah, your support.

55:57.63
Rachel
For support you and just being like hey like I'm downstairs if you need me, you know and that you you never and like there were times when one of them would turn to me and say what do you think about this and I would be like oh my God What do I think about it. Um, but yeah, just that's yeah.

56:00.50
howtosucceed
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

56:12.26
howtosucceed
Ah, quick have an answer.

56:15.47
Rachel
And I think too it was important that like it was helpful that I was a woman you know in a play that was like written and directed by men. It was and the Psm is a man and like I think it was just to have like another woman behind the table I think was so yeah, just so much of it is about like.

56:18.96
howtosucceed
Um, yeah, yeah, oh yeah, absolutely.

56:34.88
Rachel
Being physically present like I had forgotten how much of assisting is just about sitting there and I called my friend who's done a lot of associate work and I was like I'm just sitting there and he's like Gad you that's that's the job that's gonna be the job for a few weeks just gonna sit there and I was like oh yeah, okay, you're right? You're right.

56:36.00
howtosucceed
Right? yeah.

56:45.93
howtosucceed
That's the job. Yep, let's sit there soak it all up crazy. That's so cool. Yeah I'm sure you learned so much.

56:53.34
Rachel
Yeah, just happy but truly just like so happy to be in that room like he's yes I'm seeing Dan navigate that like very complicated day was really yeah.

57:07.49
howtosucceed
Um, yeah, that's great. Oh yeah, um I mean we have got a lot of good material. So let me just look and see if I had anything else I.

57:11.17
Rachel
Um, steal a lot of his I hope to steal a lot of his tricks.

57:21.70
Rachel
Um, great.

57:24.32
howtosucceed
Was a little bit curious about and maybe we talked about this or not is um how you decided to go to school for playwriting going going way earlier in our conversation because that's a unique thing to want to start.

57:35.69
Rachel
Um, oh Jesus yeah yeah, so I had like I said I had been a writer because I was little and.

57:41.98
howtosucceed
Yeah I feel.

57:47.14
howtosucceed
Her.

57:51.20
Rachel
I had some very formative experiences about that. Um, at you well you're from California. Do you did you go to? um the californias day summer school for the arts. Do you know about this so cal arts has a summer school that's called cesa.

58:01.41
howtosucceed
No, no yes. Okay, yes, oh yep, it sounds familiar.

58:10.51
Rachel
California states over school the arts and I went there this summer between my sought freshman year and then back. Ah after my soft the summer after my sophomore year and you know you have to like apply and send a portfolio. It's like a whole.

58:29.16
howtosucceed
Yeah, and by that point were you interested in theater like as a kid. Always yeah.

58:30.41
Rachel
It's like a whole thing. Um I had I love theater like my mom were bringing me a New York me with like see roway shows and whatever and I was like a very bad actor but I was like in the musical or whatever you know as ah as a kid. Um.

58:43.31
howtosucceed
Sure you loved it. Yeah, great.

58:48.21
Rachel
And in the Shakespeare play at my middle school or whatever. Um, and you know in my high school the drama kids were like the kids I wanted to be around. Um they had all the like same nerdy interests as me. Um, but so I had these very terms of like formative experiences at Ziza where I was like I am an artist. Um.

58:55.90
howtosucceed
Yeah, absolutely right.

59:05.22
howtosucceed
Great.

59:07.68
Rachel
And that was really great and then and I always wrote like fiction and essays and poetry and blah blah and then I guess my junior year of high school the drama teacher um approached me and another friend of mine. And she said do you guys want to write a play and if you guys write a play. We'll do it which is like so cool and my friend and I will like yeah my friend and I were like yeah dude like we would love that So We wrote this insane play and all our friends were in it.

59:31.43
howtosucceed
Wow, That's so cool. What an opportunity? yes.

59:46.90
Rachel
And 1 of our other friends directed it and I was like oh this is cool. You got to like watch it then after you do like that's awesome. Um, and so that was really when like the bug bit me.

59:47.90
howtosucceed
Ah, wow.

59:58.27
howtosucceed
Ah, that is awesome.

01:00:04.10
Rachel
And I don't know how I don't know how I found out about the traumatic writing major. But once I found out about it. It was like all over I was like don't want to be an English major I run the like like great plays. So yeah.

01:00:10.49
howtosucceed
Oh.

01:00:18.42
howtosucceed
Yeah, yeah, ah there is something so special about creating something that then other people perform it's just so cool. Yeah.

01:00:25.35
Rachel
Um, yeah, and then sitting in the audience and then the audience responds to it and like I was this is the coolest thing I've ever. It's ever happened to me. Um.

01:00:33.74
howtosucceed
Yeah, and I can imagine that that's so different from like writing a book because you could write a book and you know people read it and they probably tell you that they love it. But like you're not experiencing them loving it. Yeah and it was earlier. You said? um.

01:00:39.93
Rachel
Um, right in real time that way. Yeah.

01:00:49.47
howtosucceed
That playwriting was tricky that studying playwriting was tricky because it was all reliant on you and you had to go home and fix it whereas I think the reason why so many of us get into theater and stay in theater is because we love to collaborate.

01:01:02.58
Rachel
Um, exactly exactly.

01:01:04.42
howtosucceed
And to be in the room with the people and so it's interesting that balance of like collaboration and teamwork and then sometimes you're like sometimes I'm in my apartment practicing the piano for 3 hours by myself which is not collaborative at all. But there is that balance of like working with people versus your own work.

01:01:16.39
Rachel
Um, right? Yeah yeah, oh no for sure and like right the prep that happens behind closed doors is is not the fun part. Ah.

01:01:22.70
howtosucceed
Kind of interesting. Yeah absolutely and it and it is fun for some people and I think those people don't end up enjoying working in theater. This theater is all collaborating.

01:01:36.13
Rachel
Yeah, that's true, right? Where the rubber really meets the road is always right with a bunch of other people around. Yeah.

01:01:40.34
howtosucceed
And that's yeah and that's the best part about it. Well thank you so much. This is amazing I think you are fantastic I was oh well thank you? um.

01:01:50.50
Rachel
Thank you I think you were fantastic. You're such a good interviewer. You did a great job.

01:01:59.36
howtosucceed
I'm so happy to know you and and have you on here and yeah I will let you know on its oh my gosh I Maybe we'll have you back and we can talk about another project if there's one to do that.

01:02:01.67
Rachel
Um, likewise thank you for having me.

01:02:13.23
Rachel
Um, anytime. Yeah.


01:02:33.75
howtosucceed
I'll talk to you soon? bye.